January 30, 2007

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/atheist - definition Atheist

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/agnostic - definition Agnostic

The definition for Atheist is narrow wherever you look. It is an active and certain belief that there is no god. There is no "type" of atheist who says "they don't have sufficient reason to believe in god." That is an agnostic statement.

You cannot have it both ways. You have faith there is no god. I am unsure. I do not assert that proof is impossible either way. I just have not seen proof. Sounds to me like you are agnostic and want to have your rebel cake and eat it too. You say you don't want to define your "belief" (insert faith here) by what you don't know. What is it that you know that you define your belief by?

I really hate argument via Web links, but here we go.

You are incorrect that the definition of atheist is "narrow wherever you look." Dictionaries, for example, are not in agreement about the definition of atheism, and many include those who disbelieve in the existence of god as well as those who deny the existence of god. Examples:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=atheist
http://www.answers.com/topic/atheist?method=22
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/atheist

Personally, I would avoid dictionaries in this case, because they reflect what the majority thinks, and atheists are not the majority. Far better is to look at what atheists themselves think, and there are plenty who think as I do.

You are incorrect about there only being one form of atheistm. I suggest that you read the articles on atheism located here:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist4.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist

There is also a very useful passage in the Encyclopedia Britannica, which is interesting even though I would quibble with some of the wording:

Instead of saying that an atheist is someone who believes that it is false or probably false that there is a God, a more adequate characterization of atheism consists in the more complex claim that to be an atheist is to be someone who rejects belief in God for the following reasons (which reason is stressed depends on how God is being conceived): for an anthropomorphic God, the atheist rejects belief in God because it is false or probably false that there is a God; for a nonanthropomorphic God (the God of Luther and Calvin, Aquinas, and Maimonides), he rejects belief in God because the concept of such a God is either meaningless, unintelligible, contradictory, incomprehensible, or incoherent; for the God portrayed by some modern or contemporary theologians or philosophers, he rejects belief in God because the concept of God in question is such that it merely masks an atheistic substance--e.g., "God" is just another name for love, or "God" is simply a symbolic term for moral ideals.

I do not have faith that there is no god any more than I have faith that there are no fairies. Do you consider yourself agnostic on the subject of fairies in that there is probably no way to prove that they do not and have never existed? If not, why do you give god special treatment?

As for having my "rebel cake" -- I do not consider myself a rebel. I am not acting against anything or rejecting anything. I simply have not been convinced that there is a deity.

What is there that I know that I define my belief by? I know that the world would be a better place if people treated each other better and took responsibility for their own actions. I know that it is more difficult to deceive a group of people if that group knows how to think scientifically. I also know that you will win more friends and change more minds through thoughtful discussion than through attacking beliefs.

You may have gotten the hint that I find your correspondence truly annoying. Why? Because we really should be on the same side in this, but you choose to write to me in what I perceive as an inflamatory tone because you disagree with my definition of atheism. Personally, I think it is, in general, a bit silly to call yourself an agnostic, but that's not a big deal to me so long as the philosophy behind the belif is sound. What is a big deal is that you are waving your ignorance like a club, and that doesn't do anyone any good.